Posts by Anders Andersen

8

JW's really are NOT really neutral in politics - Proof

by LevelThePlayingField in

from: https://www.jw.org/en/news/legal/legal-resources/information/.

(emphasis is mine).

“jehovah’s witnesses do not involve themselves in political issues or governmental affairs.

Anders Andersen

For those who don't know, the JW org is still actively involved with the OSCE.

They can try to reason away the UN thing as a library card mistake made by a single bro.

But their OSCE actions involve Marcel Gillet, one of JW top dogs in Europe.

Somehow many exjw don't know about JW and OSCE, but to me it's a very much more damning and hypocritical involvement with 'worldly governments'. At least it's not often discussed, while this OSCE stuff is very recent (they participated in meetings in 2017).

10

How could I get a copy of the elders secret book?

by purrpurr in

the shepherding the flock one?

i'd love to read it and get the inside track of how the elders are meant to work.

anyone got a pdf?

Anders Andersen

@zebra, there is a more public and ironic case of that.

In Finland JW had to hand over the elders manual to the Minister of Justice and the Minister of Interior....both women. The newspapers reported on it too, making it all too public.

Jehovah's Witnesses will hand over their secret rule book to the Minister of Justice, Anna-Maja Henriksson, and the Minister of the Interior, Päivi Räsänen.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/jehovahs_witnesses_to_hand_over_top_secret_manual/7244267

How painful to have women demand you hand over your secret elders book., and JW have to comply.... Lol

10

How could I get a copy of the elders secret book?

by purrpurr in

the shepherding the flock one?

i'd love to read it and get the inside track of how the elders are meant to work.

anyone got a pdf?

Anders Andersen

There are several sites that have it. I know jw-wayback.org

If you go that site you can also get all the BOE letters and such.

There you go:

http://www.watchtowerwayback.org/jw-wb/English/Internal%20Documents/Elders/ELDERS%20BOOK%202010-2012%20Shepherd%20the%20flock%20of%20God%20(ks10-E).pdf

17

Do Circuit Overseers outrank Elders? Why can't they talk to disfellowshipped people?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

last sunday, our family went to the kingdom hall and i realized that this was the week that the circuit overseer was in town.

when we sat down, i noticed he came over and talked to her then he walked away i guess to talk to others.

a few minutes later, he returned to tell her that he could not talk to her because he was informed that she was disfelloshipped.

Anders Andersen

wt 15 4/15 p. 31 - "For the sake of reminding disfellowshipped ones of how they can return to Jehovah, elders may periodically visit those who have given some evidence of changing their ways."

Yes. The elders manual clearly states that this should be done following these rules:

Only once a year
List of persons to visit will be decided on by the body of elders
Two elders will be authorized to visit the DFed.

Of course these details aren't stated in the WT lest regular Joe Publisher find out how legalistic this 'loving' arrangement actually is.

17

Do Circuit Overseers outrank Elders? Why can't they talk to disfellowshipped people?

by garyneal in

jw
friends

last sunday, our family went to the kingdom hall and i realized that this was the week that the circuit overseer was in town.

when we sat down, i noticed he came over and talked to her then he walked away i guess to talk to others.

a few minutes later, he returned to tell her that he could not talk to her because he was informed that she was disfelloshipped.

Anders Andersen

Not even elders are allowed speak to (make small talk with) DFed persons.

Only elders who are authorized by the whole body of elders may speak to DFed persons once a year to see if they want to return (to their vomit).

And for those DFed who visit meetings, elders aren't allowed to talk to them unless it's necessary for their reinstatement or if the person needs to have some arrangement for transport to meetings.

So the CO just did as he and other elders are supposed to do: no make small talk with DFed people.

By quickly stopping to speak to the DFed, the CO also gave a strong signal to elders: Follow the rules! Shun! I listened to this minor thing you brought to my attention, and in reciprocation you should obey my every word!

Him coming back to say 'sorry, wont talk to you no mo' is probably his last shred of human decency combined with the desire to let the DFed know they are being punished because they're DFed. He prefers to be a shunning asshole over being mistaken for an asshole who forgets about a conversation and doesn't return to it.

30

Realization of something very close to a supernatural force but scientific

by Bad_Wolf in

jw
friends

after finding patterns in lottery numbers and thinking about if random truly exists, i also flipped a coin for awhile.

i was counted how many times i would get heads and tails and if they would equal out in the end.

if heads slowly was getting ahead too much, i would suddenly get a bunch of tails in a row to almost equal it out.

Anders Andersen

Thats just it, I probably would not be able to due to his vibration or whatever you want to call it

Randi sure must be a wizard that he manages to jinx all other peoples magic skills.

And it's very interesting that you claim his mere presence would screw you over...without even having met the man (I assume) .

Of course you could do some sort of live stream event where you take people's input and then throw the number they request. No Randi present.

30

Realization of something very close to a supernatural force but scientific

by Bad_Wolf in

jw
friends

after finding patterns in lottery numbers and thinking about if random truly exists, i also flipped a coin for awhile.

i was counted how many times i would get heads and tails and if they would equal out in the end.

if heads slowly was getting ahead too much, i would suddenly get a bunch of tails in a row to almost equal it out.

Anders Andersen

There is a .09% chance of getting heads 10 times in a row.

Indeed. And once you have tossed heads 9 times in a row already, the 10th time is still 50%.

In that situation the 9 times in a row already happened. Therefore the odds that that has happened = 100%.

On the next toss your coin doesn't care about the previous 9 tosses, nor does any mystical equalizing force care or even exist.

Once you already tossed heads 9 times in a row, the odds of coming up 10 times is 100% x 50%.

You're suffering from Dunning-Kruger-effect. Yes, you should look that up. It's a serious condition.

9

Reclaimed voices respond to jw.org's recent public statement regarding the Dutch governments decision to investigate

by Diogenesister in

i'm so sorry if this has already been posted but i think its too important and interesting to miss.. reclaimed voices chairman raymond hintjies responds to jw.orgs dutch lawyer's statement that the dutch govt.

investigating watchtower's 300 incidents of csa would be akin to"shooting a mosquito with a water cannon" .

i particularly like raymond's sensitive message to concerned jw parents, at around 3 minutes or so, .

Anders Andersen

@DOC

https://www.wikihow.com/Turn-On-YouTube-Subtitles

32

This Article Won't Change Your Mind - Great Read

by cofty in

this article won’t change your mind - the facts on why facts alone can’t fight false beliefs.

brilliant article in the atlantic by julie beck discussing the phenomena of cognitive dissonance and how it affects religious and political beliefs.

it includes some interesting thoughts on how social media has magnified the problem.. spoiler - she is not optimistic about the possibility of successfully reasoning with members of religious cults.. the article also has a link to the 45 minute audio version.. link....

Anders Andersen

Interesting article!

Theres a side of the story I'd like to add though. The same Kahan mentioned multiple times in the article did research into how both intelligence and 'scientific curiosity' have an effect on how people perceive facts.

The results?

Higher intelligence results in people being smarter at finding and understanding evidence that supports their worldview, while having enough arguments to refute evidence that shows them wrong. Intelligent people are better at believing something that is actually wrong.

So what helps people accept the real facts, even if it may not fit in their world view? Curiosity. Curiosity into finding more information about a subject. Not just to fortify their own position, but to actually learn.

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2017/2/1/14392290/partisan-bias-dan-kahan-curiosity

That's why even intelligent people join and stay in cults. They're intelligent, but not curious enough.

And that's why Jw are strongly told to never even have a tiny look at apostate information, as curiosity can lead to their 'spiritual demise'.

36

Anybody here still believe in the bible?

by Mel Morris in

jw
friends

i'm a current bible student of jw's looking to chat with someone about biblical doctrine.

i'm not interested in talking with an apostate or a fader, i'm just a person looking for answers and wondered if there are any neutral voices in this forum who have good insights into the bible.

i currently talk with a couple of jw's on a personal level from my congregation and they are knowledgeable to a certain extent, but i dare not ask them certain questions because, as you know, the congregation has a culture of fear that impacts trust and openness, especially concerning biblical doctrine or the societies teachings.

Anders Andersen

Hi Mel,

Welkome! I hope you realize that unless you accept Watchtower doctrine 100% you're an apostate yourself already (according to Watchtower).

So why avoid your peers? ;-)